Part II
Go ahead and continue our discussion here. Today in class we focused primarily on “The Infant Prodigy,” but we also began discussing “Hedda Gabler.” Feel free to comment on any of the stories or on The Diary of a Young Girl. A couple of key points to remember about “The Infant Prodigy,” Bibi, is that Thomas Mann was a German writer who fled Germany as soon as he began realizing how drastically his country was changing. He lived from 1875-1955, which means he was alive during all of World War II. The sense of arrogance Bibi portrays is something most readers pick up on, yet the audience members in the story flock to him and treat him like royalty.
Although we’ve only begun talking about Hedda, the important thing to remember about Ibsen, the author, is that he was criticized during his own lifetime for being a feminist writer. This seems a little ironic when thinking about Hedda Gabler, a female character who tries convincing one person to kill himself and then takes her own life. However, when we examine Hedda’s life, we see that she is a woman trapped. She is trapped in a marriage she does not want, trapped in a station of life that forces her to look pretty and entertain guests when she’d much rather be out hunting with the guys, trapped in a society that denies women of her status any real freedoms or rights. To compensate for her feelings of isolation, she tries to control others from the sidelines. But does she succeed?
Part I
Below is a list of “starter questions.” You do not need to answer all of them–or any of them specifically. Your discussion must relate to the summer reading selections, and they must be appropriate in order to receive full credit. Remember that the “live” portion will occur from 7:45-8:15. It is not mandatory that you participate in that portion, but you are responsible for posting one thoughtful comment.
Did you feel today’s in-class discussion helped your understanding? How so? What surprised you about the story? What else did it make you think of?
Now that you may have a better understanding of “The Hunger Artist,” how does it differ from those attitudes we see in “An Infant Prodigy?”
August 31, 2007 at 3:47 pm
The story about The Hunger Artist was very religious. I belive that the man who was fasting was trying to prove that he didn’t need the necesitys in life to live. I think that he fasted to rid himself of his consience.
August 31, 2007 at 3:55 pm
I never realized that the Hunger Artist was so religious. The fact that he fasted for forty days, I thought, was insignificant to the rest of the story. In the “Infant Prodigy” the attitude of the people is very different towards Bibi. In the “Infant Prodigy”, people actually wanted to see Bibi, even the Little Old Princess. Also, the only thing I could come up with for the question, “what did Bibi think of his audience?” was that he thought they were, basically, dumb, does any one else have another idea about that?
August 31, 2007 at 4:14 pm
I learned a lot in today’s discussion of the Hunger Artist. Before the discussion, I thought the story was disturbing, I thought it was about a man who starved himself for no reason other to impress people. I was surprised to find out The Hunger Artist actually had a good meaning. I was surprised to find out that the meaning of the story was to show how much humans like excitement, and through aside the non-exciting things without realizing the meaning in it. The story An Infant Prodigy is almost exactly the opposite of the story The Hunger Artist. I feel that in An Infant Prodigy, the message is saying that people see beauty in a little boy playing the piano, when they could be seeing rodeos, so people can like shows like a Hunger Artist.
August 31, 2007 at 5:28 pm
In the discussion today i learned alot. In the summer i didn’t understand some parts in the story. But I was glad that you cleared some of the things that I didn’t understand.
August 31, 2007 at 6:38 pm
I agree with Jalen, During the summer i didnt understand the story. I didnt understand that he was trying to prove a point and no one really cared about how he was in a cage but when they put in the tiger everyone stopped and came to see it.
August 31, 2007 at 7:00 pm
Thanks Ms G for clearing that up i learned alot like what the panther ment and how every ingnored the man but loved the new young panther. I didn’t get what happened to him and how he got their but thank you for clearing
August 31, 2007 at 7:00 pm
The discussion during class really helped me to have a better idea about the story. I didn’t understand it very well. It was hard to understand with all of the harder language and odd story. I never thought that the Hunger Artist fasted for religion, thought her did it to be special and noticed. This story helped me think about the whole picture. Like that he did do it for his religion and to get people to realize that it is good to sacrifice. I hope that we can do this on the Infant Prodigy, that one I did not get at all. I understood Hedda Gabler very well though, just because love stories are easier for me to understand. Though there were a few parts that I had to read over again.
August 31, 2007 at 7:09 pm
ok so i relized that the hunger artist was a very religious story and i realy didnt understand why he did the stuff that he did, but now it all makes sence. and i realy do think that its horrible how we dont notice a human in a cage but we notice a panther, it just makes you think how self absorbed the world is.
August 31, 2007 at 7:48 pm
Ya. I agree with Tay who agree’s with Jalen. I understood the stories but it was good to get clarification on them and seeing what other people had to say.
August 31, 2007 at 7:50 pm
Ya I really agree with Laurel. This story really captures part of the world, which Mrs. G told us the author is good at. Now that I think about it this story was pretty good, but it made a lot more sense after going over it in class.
August 31, 2007 at 7:50 pm
Also think that the hunger artist was trying to say that the world is to materialized and that we are so caught up in it.
August 31, 2007 at 7:50 pm
I’m going to have to say I definately agree with Jalen and Tay and Taylor. I really didn’t understand the meaning of the stories until we discussed it in class.
August 31, 2007 at 7:52 pm
I think the cage symbolized many things. First, I think that it represented his studio where he would do his work. Second, I think it represented a canvas where he was the art. Third, it was his sancuary. He felt secure and very modivated to prove a point; that people can go with out resources.
August 31, 2007 at 7:52 pm
And I kind of agree with the Hunger Artist on that we need to be not so caught up on the things that we want and not even the things that we need, but instead, we need to focus on what we have and be thankful and not take them for granted.
August 31, 2007 at 7:53 pm
In Hedda Gabler, I think that Hedda was double sided. She acted nice to everyone but then she would trick them into her evil ways. Like in the end she convinced that one guy to shoot himself.
August 31, 2007 at 7:53 pm
I agree I was lost until we disscussed them in class.
August 31, 2007 at 7:53 pm
I agree with Taylor on that because this guy did not have anything and until the end, he was totally happy.
August 31, 2007 at 7:53 pm
I agree also with Jalen, after we talked about it I understood the Huger Artist much better.
August 31, 2007 at 7:54 pm
Does anyone agree with my point?
August 31, 2007 at 7:54 pm
Why did every one die in Hedda Gabler.
August 31, 2007 at 7:55 pm
August 31, 2007 at 7:55 pm
And also going back to the Hunger Artist, I agree with Jay but I also think that the cage sort of represents his canvas and an artist needs a place to put his work so he chose his canvas as the cage.
August 31, 2007 at 7:55 pm
Ya I really agree with you Becca.
August 31, 2007 at 7:55 pm
I agree with Taylor…and jay
August 31, 2007 at 7:56 pm
And thank u Declan
August 31, 2007 at 7:56 pm
Yes I do agree with you Becca!!
But after I went 40 days I wouldn’t let people put me in the circus and I would just say nope sorry. This was for myself. Not to ammuse people.
August 31, 2007 at 7:57 pm
I agree with Becca, the story does show that we need to focus on what we have and be thankful and not take them for granted.
August 31, 2007 at 7:57 pm
I also think that the cage sort of symbolizes his separation from the rest of the world.
August 31, 2007 at 7:59 pm
Does anyone remember the Infant Prodigy very well?????
August 31, 2007 at 7:59 pm
I totally agree with u Taylor, I would tell them that I wasn’t doin this just to put on a show.
August 31, 2007 at 7:59 pm
Do we talk about Hedda Gabler too or is it just the Hunger Artist tonight?
August 31, 2007 at 8:00 pm
Umm I kind of do, I mean just bits and pieces though.
August 31, 2007 at 8:01 pm
I agree with Taylor too.
August 31, 2007 at 8:01 pm
And yes we can touch on other stories Mrs. G said.
August 31, 2007 at 8:01 pm
I sort of remember it, but not that well.
August 31, 2007 at 8:01 pm
Ok cool. Thanks.
August 31, 2007 at 8:02 pm
Ummmm well lets try to remember some of it.
August 31, 2007 at 8:02 pm
No problem…Hedda Gabler was kind of confusing don’t u think?
August 31, 2007 at 8:03 pm
I didn’t really understand the meaning of the Infant Prodigy.
August 31, 2007 at 8:03 pm
Yes, you may touch on other stories–I’m glad that you are agreeing with one another, but say why you agree as well. Add to the discussion with a follow-up point.
August 31, 2007 at 8:04 pm
Why does every one die in Hedda Gabler??
August 31, 2007 at 8:04 pm
Uhh yes and no. I think that it was hard to follow but it was very well planned out.
August 31, 2007 at 8:04 pm
Ya it was, but do you understand why she shot herself? Was it just she thought her life was a wreck?
August 31, 2007 at 8:05 pm
yes i think so Becca. I didn’t quite understand it. I think i will though because i didn’t understand Hunger Artist either but today’s discussion in class helped alot!
August 31, 2007 at 8:05 pm
She shot her self because she couldn’t stand being under someone else’s control
August 31, 2007 at 8:05 pm
Mani to answer your question I would say because Hedda is kind of mischevious. She SHOWS that she is nice and caring but she IS kind of two faced. Like in the end for an example.
August 31, 2007 at 8:07 pm
Thanks Ryan.
August 31, 2007 at 8:07 pm
I really agree with Declan, I mean she didn’t really have a great reason did she?
August 31, 2007 at 8:07 pm
I agree with Taylor because she pertends to like her husband, but really can’t stand him.
August 31, 2007 at 8:08 pm
I agree with taylor, she has to different personalitys, it was kind of hard to keep track of nice and mean Hedda.
August 31, 2007 at 8:08 pm
Then why did she marry him?
August 31, 2007 at 8:08 pm
Yes I agree with Ryan because she had to do what ever she was told. Kind of like a servent and she couldn’t take the stress. But why did she convince the other guy to shoot himself??
August 31, 2007 at 8:09 pm
Becca poses a good question–why does she marry him?
August 31, 2007 at 8:09 pm
She probably married him for the money.
August 31, 2007 at 8:09 pm
Becca to answer your question…I think to trick him.
August 31, 2007 at 8:10 pm
To trick him into what though?
August 31, 2007 at 8:10 pm
I’m not sure why she convinces the other guy to shoot himself.
August 31, 2007 at 8:10 pm
I think she hated that guy Taylor. She “burned his children” after all. And after his children were gone there was nothing left to live for.
August 31, 2007 at 8:11 pm
everyone dies in hedda gabbler because the writer was having a hard day and expresses his feelings through writing, thats what i do.
August 31, 2007 at 8:11 pm
Hmmm good question. I do not know.
August 31, 2007 at 8:11 pm
That’s a really good idea Laurel.
August 31, 2007 at 8:11 pm
She burned his children?? I don’t remember that.
August 31, 2007 at 8:12 pm
Don’t everybody jump at once!!!
August 31, 2007 at 8:12 pm
That’s a really good point Laurel…
August 31, 2007 at 8:13 pm
hedda marries the guy because she think he’s going to be rich with book he writes.
August 31, 2007 at 8:13 pm
Mrs, G, Taylor O told me to tell you that your sight crashed his computer. I don’t know how but it did and he wanted me to tell you that.
August 31, 2007 at 8:13 pm
thank you laurel B.
August 31, 2007 at 8:13 pm
I think people who supported that Hunger artist should have come each and eveyday and think about being in his position. Like Becca said, people should be thankful for what they have and not getting that item and then taking it for granted and wanted more. People don’t need three meals everyday just to satisfy themselves. Some people in Africac only have two or three meals a week and we complaing about not have three meals a DAY.
August 31, 2007 at 8:13 pm
No, she doesn’t burn his children–she burns his manuscript, which was like his child. It meant that much to him. He was a writer.
August 31, 2007 at 8:13 pm
Burned his children? I don’t remember that either…sounds scary
August 31, 2007 at 8:14 pm
But how do we know if he wrote it all in one day?
August 31, 2007 at 8:14 pm
No taylor the book that he wrote. He considered it his as his kid.
August 31, 2007 at 8:14 pm
While I was reading I was looking at the cage to represent separation. A separation from necceceties, the average human being, food, and and was a very religious object. Although I could see it as being a canvas or a studio for his work. Before we talked about it in class I really didn’t understand the forty days fasting idea but now that I checked it it really does make a lot of sense
August 31, 2007 at 8:14 pm
Why did Hedda Gabler think that the guy shooting himself was such a great act of courage?
August 31, 2007 at 8:15 pm
OHHHHH!!!!
Thanks Ryan.
August 31, 2007 at 8:15 pm
Okay, guys–great discussion. I think an all time record for the number of posts in such a short time. Time to hit submit on your last comment and we will answer many of these questions tomorrow . . . to be continued!
August 31, 2007 at 8:15 pm
an item not thatt item OOPPSEY DOOPEY
August 31, 2007 at 8:15 pm
I was unable to read the summer reading because i was not there the day the the binders were given out but I learned a lot about the stories that we read over the summer. Oh yeah is there like a big trend with people dying or that just me. But I learned a bunch in in all the discussions in class.
August 31, 2007 at 8:16 pm
I think because Hedda talked him into it quite well. I think he thought that people would think that he is brave but he is just gullible and Hedda is EVIL!!!
August 31, 2007 at 8:28 pm
The discusion did’nt make too big a difference for me. So about the hunger artist in a cage, it was so messed up that people wouldn’t watch a man in near death, but they would rather see a panther. Cause it is a PERSON who CHOSE to suffer in a cage rather than a panther who was captured.
August 31, 2007 at 8:31 pm
Hi Ms. G! I’m sorry I’m late! I really liked the Hunger Artist. I thought it was cool how the 40 days related to the Bible! As for Hedda Gabler, I didn’t like the story very much. I found it very confusing. Why does she kill her lover? And then herself? She is like a nice sweet person to some people and then goes and then plots against them behind their backs! That didn’t really make much sense to me. The Hunger Artist was my favorite out of the short works (besides Anne Frank). Bye! Hannah
August 31, 2007 at 8:35 pm
i think that the disscussion helped a lot thank you
August 31, 2007 at 8:54 pm
I learned many things during this disscusion. I didn’t know that Kafka wrote about religious thoughts in his stories. I read it again this afternoon and understood it even better. I don’t really understand though how Hedda covinced Loveborg to kill himself.
August 31, 2007 at 10:03 pm
I agree with everyone who said they understand a lot of “The hunger artist” by today’s discussion.
August 31, 2007 at 10:13 pm
I think that todays discussion was really beneficial for me because there were quite a few points I hadn’t understood before hand. I didn’t realize that the hunger artist was fasting for religious reasons or that he was trying to prove a point. That cleared up why his life became so meaningless and he died. When people started losing interest in his cause, that’s when he began to give up and wither. I had also assumed when I was reading that he had chosen to be in the cage at the circus and not that he had been pushed to do so, and when he was at the circus he was only an attraction, and not a cause. I hadn’t noticed that he had died in the cage without anyone noticing, and that added more pain to the story. When I read it I didn’t realize that the point of the story was that we have a distorted view of success, prosperity, beauty, and art. The panther symbolizes are idea of entertainment, because since a panther shouldn’t be caged it proves to be more interesting.
P.S. Ms. G I apologise for this being late, I just got home about 15 minutes ago and haven’t been at home since school ended.
September 1, 2007 at 8:53 am
known only as a ‘‘hunger artist,’’ a world-famous performer, the ‘‘record hunger artist of all time.’’ He travels the world, ‘‘performing’’ his fasts publicly, as a form of mass entertainment. Although the best of the best, the hunger artist continues to be unsatisfied with his performances. Even at the height of his career, he feels that his ‘‘work’’ is never adequately appreciated by his audience, who fail to recognize his true potential. Furthermore, he feels…
September 1, 2007 at 2:42 pm
So today the disscussion helped me out alot. I didnt understand that Hedda was a good person at the beginning . I just thought she was a self centered mean person.
September 1, 2007 at 2:47 pm
Also today I found out that Bibi was a lot more self centered than i thought. He thought he was better than everyone else and i didnt understand that before.
September 1, 2007 at 2:50 pm
Today’s disscusion helped me understand Bibi a lot better as to why he’s so arrogant. And why Hedda doen’t like Thea is a lot clearer to me now that i understand it.
September 1, 2007 at 4:01 pm
Well I agree with Tay that Bibi is very self centered but I did not remember the story so it helped me alot talking about it in class and also I have a question. Do you think Bibi wanted to be like an adult? That he liked it or what? Because it is kind of hard to tell in the story. I mean he likes the attention but did he like being treated like an adult?
September 1, 2007 at 4:03 pm
And in Anne Frank, what we talked about today in class really struck me hard this time. Like in Hansel and Grettel that is all made up. Yes it is gross and just sick minded but on the other side Anne Frank is a TRUE story. That is really hard to think about let alone to be the one that had to go through it.
September 2, 2007 at 1:38 pm
The Discussion on the Infant Prodigy really helped me to understand the full meaning of the story. My picture of the story is a lot clearer now. I don’t think that Bibi wanted to be like an adult, I think that that was the way people always treated him, so he got use to it. I also think that he doesn’t really know how to act like a kid because all his life he’s been taught to act arrogant because of all the attention that he gets.
September 3, 2007 at 8:22 am
I also think that Bibi was very self centered but also you have to put yourself in his situation. How would you like to have no life outside of being a pianist? This gives him no right to act this way but I think you need to put yourself in his place.
September 3, 2007 at 3:45 pm
I agree with Tay. Before the discussion I didn’t know Bibi was self -centered. After the Friday’s class discussion, I understood Bibi’s character better. It helps me to enjoy “The hunger artist” more.
September 3, 2007 at 5:05 pm
The discussion on Friday helped me because in “Hedda Gabler” I thought that Hedda burned the kids, and when you cleared it up on Friday the story started making sence.
September 3, 2007 at 5:14 pm
I agree that Bibi was self-centered. He was self-centered because of his thoughts, but like Mrs. Gutierrez said in class that is more the adults fault because he was put into the adult world and never really had a childhood.
September 3, 2007 at 6:40 pm
I was surprised to know that Bibi hated his audience as much as he did. I also learned from our discussion that Bibi was treated like the princess, I thought they were only giving him some respect for his gifts.
September 3, 2007 at 8:43 pm
I think that Bibi was a child put into an adult’s world. It seemed like he grew up way too fast! The audience portrayed him as a celebrity, when he was just a child. Another thing that struck me about this story is how a little boy is compared to a princess. The lines we almost equally populated! That means that a little boy who playes piano is as important as the princess! It reminds me so much of our society today. We think of celebrities as almost godly, when they are only people who do a job, which is entertainment. Making movies and singing is their carrer, but we make it out to be a dream life, like a god!
September 3, 2007 at 9:26 pm
We were watching the movie “Marie Antoinette”, and her story is very similar to that of Bibis’. She was very self centered, but because she had no other life, she had no idea just how badly arrogant she was. Bibi is also very self centered because no one ever told him that he is, and he has never met any one as good as he is.
September 4, 2007 at 10:34 am
The discusion in class really helped me understand The Infant Prodigy to a fuller extent. He is not a normal kid but more of a celebrity. He never had a normal childhood and that’s why he is the way he is. Comparing Bibi to stars like Freddy Ado and Lindsy Lohan helped me understand the story better.
September 4, 2007 at 12:20 pm
I didn’t learn anything new from the discussion except for a couple subjects. First of all was the fact that the Hunger Artist was religious in his reason of fasting. Second, is the fact that Bibi could be compared to a princess. At first I didn’t understand that Talent and Bloodline could be equal in the eyes of others.
September 4, 2007 at 1:55 pm
I think it seems weird that she helps someone kill themselves. I found it interesting that she killed her self at the end (although I could see it coming in the long run). I think she dues succeed because she has persuaded others to think that there not loved or something of that nature and the people go from being happy to being miserable. I think she dues this because she has to feel this way so why do other people get to be happy.
September 4, 2007 at 4:26 pm
Once again the discussions during class really helped me understand the meaning of the storys. I was reading the story over and over but never caught on to why she married Tesman. But why did she tell Loveborg to kill himself when she loves him? Is it because she is angry with him for not proposing to her? Or to make Thea upset? But that wouldn’t make sence because she already upset Thea by burning the manuscript. Then in the end she does start to control everyone by making Loveborg kill himself, upsetting Thea and then to make Tesman upset, she kills herself. But I think that she also killed herself because she realised that she couldn’t win entirely.
September 4, 2007 at 4:43 pm
I think that Bibi is presured to grow up too fast. When poeple realize that someone has a special talent they put them in the spotlight, and expect them to act grown up because they have a special talent. I think because of this Bibi is so arrogant. When you are a child, you have that child innocence that is part of growing up. As you grow up you learn things about people and how to judge them and the world around them. Bibi missed this period of growing up which makes him so arrogant.
September 4, 2007 at 4:52 pm
I loved hedda gabbler! She seemed to have decided on what she did spur-of the moment, it wasn’t planned out. I’m not sure she did what she did for her happieness, i think it was more so that people around her would be just as unhappy as her.
September 4, 2007 at 5:16 pm
i think that it helped when mrs.gu explaned what it ment when helen burned there children and that it realy ment the manuscript that helped alot
September 4, 2007 at 6:28 pm
I think that Bibi is alot like the child stars of today. Adults pushed him way too hard for his own good. If you look at a lot of former child stars they usually end up with a terrible adult life. For example, Gary Coleman was a great child star, but is now a mall security guard barely getting by. This could just as easily happen to Bibi.
September 4, 2007 at 6:42 pm
Hedda was a confusing story and im still lost.
September 4, 2007 at 7:20 pm
The discussion on the Infant Prodigy didn’t really help me understand the story anymore than I had. The Infany Prodigy was the one story that I understood fully about that he was treated like a king and that he thought his audience was stupid.
September 4, 2007 at 8:07 pm
I agree with Laurel B about how she was unhappy and because of that she wanted to make everyone else around her unhappy aswell. but I dont understand why she married someone she didnt love, i understand that her and lovberg were in diffrent leagues and weren’t alowed to get married but why didnt they just do it? why would you mary someone that you didnt love? It just doesnt make sence to me.
September 4, 2007 at 8:43 pm
I deinitely agree with Laurel B. when she says that Hedda just wants everyone else to be happy. I also agree with Kailyn when she says that she kills herself because she diecides she can’t win entirely. I also think she kills herself because she doesn’t want anyone to find out all of the things she did, and she doesn’t want to have to keep living her life because she is so miserable. The reason I think she marries Tesman is because he is supposed to become rich and give her a life-style that she can enjoy. When it turns out Tesman might not end up as a wealthy man that’s when Hedda’s life begins to really spiral.
September 4, 2007 at 8:58 pm
I think Hedda Gabler was a very uppsetting story because it delt so much with death. It was so horrible of her to burn Lovborg’s and Thea’s manuscript just for the fact that Thea was able to change Lovborg and Hedda wasn’t. It upset me the way that Hedda very easily convinced Lovborg to commit suicide and had no second thought about what she had just done. To me it seemed as though she was driven to a state of maddness where she was missing her self conciouse or the little voice inside her head telling her what not to do.
September 4, 2007 at 9:11 pm
I had a totally different perspective on the two lines leading to the princess and the infant prodigy. I was thinking all this time that the infant was as royal as the princess and that it had nothing to do with society treating talent like a royal figure who deserves attention.
September 15, 2007 at 9:40 pm
My 2 ideas for my research paper:
1.)Ultimate Frisbee – Inform
2.)Uniforms at CSS – Persuasive
September 16, 2007 at 10:29 am
The two different subjects I’m going to do is the history of hockey because it is what I’m most interested in. And the common day paint ball that should be interesting because most people think paint ball is not a sport but it is.