Now that we have finished reading both plays, discuss your feelings about the use of suicide in the plays. Do you feel that audiences in 500 BCE felt differently about life than a contemporary audience might feel? Can you think of any contemporary movies that utilize suicide to convey tragedy?
Ms. Gutierrez's 8th Grade English
A Convenient Classroom Tool
Recent Comments
Gavin G on Love at first sight?? Tristen B on Love at first sight?? Philip K. on Love at first sight?? Elizabeth S. on Love at first sight?? Philip K. on Love at first sight??
Ms. Gutierrez's 8th Grade English 
Suicide was used to show their depression, for example when a family member died it was basically insta-suicide. When a person committed suicide, it became a chain of suicides, therefore when one person committed suicide other people began committing suicide as well.
I think that in 500 BCE they didn’t show much emotion towards suicide. Now if anyone commits suicide its like bomb blew up .
To be continued later…
It seems that in 500 BCE suicide was much more common then it is now. Today most issues for suicide are due to money and other worldly problems. While in Antigone and Oedipus all of the characters kill themselves due to the loss of another.I also believe that because everyone was so much more religious and sure of their religion, being killed was not as big of a deal. Today people question more about religion and God and an afterlife, so they are more scared to die. The unknown is always scarier than the more certain. Then they were sure that they would not cease to exist. However, today people are scared to die because they do not believe they have something to look forward to.
Views on suicide have changed. Back then suicide was more common. Most people looked forward to the afterlife. They weren’t as afraid of dying as people are now. As times changed and beliefs of the gods began to fade, people feared death more. According to the inferno, Suicide got you a one way ticket to the 7th circle of hell. Who wants to suffer internal damnation?
I agree with you Case. As times changed people stopped believing in the afterlife. They feared death a lot more.
i agree with harjap
One of the only movies that i know that emphasized suicide was “wanted”, which was a pretty horrible movie. I think that it did not emphasize tragedy it was just a cheap way to end a movie.
I feel the audiences in the 500 BCE where more open to suicide since it was usually done to honor a person or to go with the dignity they still had left instead die with no dignity. Rather in recent times suicide is looked down upon and is not considered honorable any more. Also when you were depressed in the 500 BCE they didn’t have the kind of technology of helping depressed people as they do now. Where as now in the contemporary age We have the technology to suppress the depressed emotions like pills and therapy. Sadly I do not know of a movie that utilize suicide to convey tragedy. But however, I know of many books.
Suicide is a more dramatic way to show the depression and grieving of the characters who have lost loved ones, or who have given up hope. Sophocles makes his characters commit suicide to show there grieving in less cliche way then just writing “they cried”. Sophocles does a good job of showing the effective of what characters do by having there actions cause people to commit suicide. Suicide is often committed in situations that could have been worked out.
In my opinion I think that suicidal wasn’t that big of a deal. The reason why I say this is because that back then people were at war and sometimes they had reason to do this horrible crime. Sometimes the reason could be that they have been through so many tragedies that they can’t take anymore. Another reason why that people commit suicide is that they have loss of someone who they loved or even a friend. Also in my opinion I think that suicide is showing a weak opinion of showing a character. Why do I say this? It’s because it’s showing that the character is very hopeless and it doesn’t need go on. Take Antigone for example she is very strong, confident, and will do any thing to get the job done, but that changed when she committed suicide show that she was weak at the time. An example of a movie that shows some suicidal part is in slumdog millionaire. Why? “Spoilers” There is a part when the main character’s brother gets shot a the end and the reason is that he wanted to get killed for a reason to kill his boss. This shows some suicidal part, but not a big part.
I think that suicide in plays was a tool to show love, helplessness, or remorse. An example of committing suicide due to love would be when Haemon killed himself because his future wife, Antigone, had killed herself. Antigone had killed herself due to helplessness. She was stuck in a cave to starve, so she knew she couldn’t do anything. For remorse, an example would be Oedipus. He felt guilty for killing his father and marrying his mother, so, of course, he stabbed his eyes out and killed himself. This concept of suicide was probably not as ridiculous in 500 BCE as apposed to modern times. Back then, war was much more common. People died all the time, and someone committing suicide probably wasn’t that bad. Think about it this way: if ten of your classmates died in war, would you be nearly as discouraged if one of the remaining ones committed suicide? You wouldn’t be happy, but comparatively, you wouldn’t have as much sadness unless that person happened to be very close to you.
I can’t think of many suicides in movies other than that one attempted suicide in Yes Man, but that doesn’t really count, seeing as the guy trying to kill himself ended up not doing so in the end. Also, the attempted suicide did not have a dramatic element to the plot like in Oedipus or Antigone.
Will and Casey, I both disagree and agree with you on your statement. I do agree about the fact that suicide was not thought to be as bad then. However, I am sorry, but I do not think that religion was the cause of it. The Greek version of death was much worse than the Christian version. The Greeks thought that they would end up in the Fields of Asphodel forever where they would suffer for eternity. They might have gotten into the Elysian Fields, but it was doubtful. In Christianity, going to Heaven is much more likely than going to the Elysian Fields. The concept of death now is more optimistic than before.
Graham, I agree with you. Suicide was a way of extra drama that added to the effect. I like the way you compared it to just saying “they cried.” Saying they committed suicide instead meant much more and implied extreme, drastic misery.
I do feel that people in 500 BCE would feel differently about the use of suicide in plays than people would feel about it now. I think suicide is being used as a way of showing how deeply people love each other, or it shows how deeply disturbed they are. In the first play, Iocasta kills herself because she doesn’t want to live knowing that she has married her own son. Then, Oedipus proceeds to blind himself because he also realizes that the woman he loves is his mother, and she has just killed herself. In “Antigone” suicide is used as a symbol of love. First, Antigone hangs herself because she wants to die a dignified death instead of suffocating or starving. Then, when Haemon finds out that she has killed herself. Then Haemon’s mother, Euridyce, finds out that Haemon has committed suicide, and she kills herself which leaves Creon alone. This is showing that the love between these family members is very strong, and they cannot live knowing that the people closest to them are dead. If this were to be in a play now, there would be a very negative response to it because it shows that these people have no self control, and they cannot live with the decision that Creon made to kill Antigone. At the moment, I cannot think of any movies that use suicide to convey any ideas.
Brandi, I agree that in 500BCE, people saw suicide as a dignified way to die if you knew you had no other choice, but now, suicide is not viewed as a dignified thing.
Suicide in 500 BCE reminded me a little of Seppuku in Ancient Japan. Suicide seemed to not just relate to sadness, but to honor. In Seppuku you could regain your lost honor. I don’t think the people who committed suicide were necessarily regaining honor, but maybe finding a way out of having to deal with losing their honor. I don’t think honor is such a big deal to people, because it doesn’t seem that society cares much about it anymore. We do care some now, but loss of honor would be much more shameful and a gigantic deal in Ancient times. The suicides of those people seemed to be much more “societal accepted” than they would ever be now.
One movie I can think of with suicide is Remember Me. A brother of the main character kills himself, and it really messes the main character up. I think this is another reason why we generally are less accepting of suicide, because we are taught that it effects others too.
I beleive that suicide has deeply changed over the years. 500 years ago if you commited suicide it was more common so it wasn’t too odd and not much cared about. Where today if a person in your family their is a chance that your entire family will be looked down apon. So i do think it was ok to show people this because it was just common life. I can think of one movie Lonesome Dove where a charecter hangs himself if is liked down apon but, the movie takes place in the 1800’s so it is not as bad as where if a person hung them selves today.
Casey, I agree. They didn’t seem to worry as much about what death was, as we do. The religion seemed more concrete.
Gavin, I see your point. When one person committed suicide, lots of other people did too. Everything had a lot of drama.
I think that back then life was viewed differently. In a way, they had less respect for it because once there wasn’t any reasons to live, they would end it. If their family or loved ones died, they realized that there wouldn’t be any purpose to live anymore. So they killed themselves. There was also a stronger religious aspect to it, as it was much more commonly a huge part of their life. But they were also more questionable about it. They were getting to the point where they didn’t know what to think about the gods and such, and in times like that suicide doesn’t seem as bad with such confusion. But as different as it sounds that were all saying about it. Suicide is still suicide I think human nature is still the same as now. As bad as your life may seem, most people won’t kill themselves. Back then, perhaps a few select people were quick to make decisions and ended their life when it wasn’t going well. But still the rate of suicide wasn’t monstrous.
Maile, I totally agree that suicide was used in societies other than ancient Greece, and it was accepted as normal, and even good in the case of Japan.
Life was viewed a little differently than it is today. As Casey conveyed, most people lived their lives according to their religious views and hopes for their after live. Nowadays life is more precious and peoples belief of the afterlife is different. A contemporary audience would probably view these plays as very tragic, maybe even more so than the audiences of old because it is less likely of a possibility. In the movie Seven Pounds the main character commits suicide because of love. Suicide is used to convey both tragedy and hope. The tragedy is the main character dies after finding love and learning to live again. Suicide conveys hope in that that many lives were improve from his sacrifice.
I agree with Brandi’s thoughts on the audiences, she had some good points.
Maile I love your idea about adding Suppeku in there it really ties it in. I believe that in 500 BCE suicide had a different meaning then it does now a days. Back then I dont believe it was frowned apon as such a bad thing. It was probably their way to trust that the gods will take care of them in the afterlife.
From what I have herd during the stories, I agree with Chris when he mentions that back in 500 B.C life was very different then today. Aside from all the suicide that had happened, we cant forget how much differently the women were treated. So it could of been possible that at times women were offended. Soon enough, they didn’t start thinking about the gods as much before actually committing suicide. Like some people said above me, this doesn’t mean suicide rates were over the top.
In 500 B.C., it seemed that most suicide was actually noble or for something honorable. It is a major topic in tragedy plays because it is a big deal, and the heroines all have major causes that cause them to commit suicide. Now, although some suicide is noble, it is many times dues to depression as some of you said before. Maybe it is safer in current times, or people deal differently with information than they used too. The current movies and books that use suicide to display tragedy are: Harry Potter (many times), and Romeo and Juliet. I can not think of anything else right now.
I agree with you Greta- you make a good point. It does make sense when you mention how in most suicide cases, it was either noble or honorable. For all we know, they could of done it too gain courage back for example. Remember when we talked about Suppeku? Exactly like what Maile mentioned before!
I think that in 500 BCE, people used suicide as a way to escape their grief and sorrow. Also, because the Ancient Greeks believed in heaven and the afterlife, they most likely didn’t value their lives as much as present-day people do. They believed that suicide was just a way to escape their mortal lives. Present-day people are not as impulsive when it comes to committing suicide, and think it through much more than the Ancient Greeks. The Ancient Greeks thought of suicide more as a way to move on earlier and forget all of their hardships. (Will be continued on next post)
Either the people in 500 BCE had a very low respect for human life, or people were extremely affected by the loss of anyone near and dear. They show this through Antigone killing herself just because she was exiled, and then Haemon killing himself because his wife was dead. In those times it shows how fragile human life really is and how little decisions have big effects.
Brandi, I agree with you on the point when you say that suicide was used to show honor. ESPECIALLY in ancient times suicide resembled this. whether it was in this book or in ancient history its-self suicide wasn’t only a bad thing. But I also believe that suicide was shown as a relatively bad thing in this book compared to life. When a family member died they pretty much would commit suicide so this was not an honorable death it was because they were suffering and they wanted to end it I guess, I really don’t understand suicide.
And Maile, the suicide also reminded me about seppuku, because it was use as an honorable thing (suicide)
oops, I meant so say used not use, my apology
Sorry, I did not capitalize the beginning or put punctuation at the end of my sentence. I’m sorry.
I think that the people in 500 BCE had a different perspective of suicide from us. Suicide, in some cases, was considered honorable back then, so it can make sense why so many people “fell on their sword” in the play. We would react very differently if we saw this today, thinking how wrong and crude it would be. Civilians might of felt that they were only a gods puppet, lead by prophecies and predictions. I cannot think of any movies i’ve seen that have suicide at all, proving how much we have changed.
I agree with Hunter that human life does seem fragile. Even though death is a big deal, people now are used to others dying. When we read the book, we weren’t shocked that Antigone was dead. We weren’t horrified. We pretty much said “Okay. Well bye then.” Maybe death was a bigger deal then, but is it less of a deal now to display death as tragedy? Or does it have the same effect?
I feel that suicide is misused these days, and in ancient days. So many people die because of accidents, disasters, or sickness. I doubt any of these people chose to or want to die. It just happens. So when you have life, and the choice to live, then why would you die? Maybe I don’t understand their situation, but no one’s life is so bad that their only choice is ending their life. Many poor people die, and have no choice. Many selfish people die because they feel like they are the only ones suffering. However, I feel that people these days and people in ancient times are very similar. They both commit suicide under tragic circumstances.
Webb, I definitely agree with your answer. If someone I knew fell on their own sword, it would be a huge deal, and everyone would be horrified. Then, however, falling on their own sword was an honorable way to die. Great point.
I think in 500 BCE people felt differently about suicide. Today people are always questioning God or the gods so a afterlife is a less certain thing. Back then the people never questioned the gods so they were more confident about the afterlife. Now people usually kill them selves because of money and fame, but back then the people would kill them selves because their loved ones died or they killed themselves.
Tara, that is a great point. Maybe many people just react on their first instinct which is why they would fall on their swords or hang themselves. Maybe if the people had waited another hour, none of that would have happened.
So this is my continued answer…
In ancient times they refer to suicide many times in books or plays, and it doesn’t seem like it hits home very hard. It kind of seems like its just a day to day thing for them. Maybe one of the reasons death and suicide doesn’t really even phase them is because they believe that they are covered in their after life. So instead of being sad that the person that they lost is gone maybe they are happy for them that they are in a happy after life.
Kim,
I agree with what your are trying to get across because you really understood what the question was asking and you hit all the important points.
Tara you say that no body has a life so bad that it is bad enough to die. I have no experience with any one who hates their life so much that they would rather die than live. But at the same time there are people who have TERRIBLE lives and it is not possible for people who have good lives and couldn’t even fathom killing themselves to try to even begin to understand there reasoning. Btu at the same time people may be caught up in the moment but maybe that is where you are coming from and if so I can agree with you. But saying that NOBODY has a life bad enough to end it, is a false statement.
Aaron i agree with you about saying that in the past suicide was accepted and a good thing to regain honor.
Greta, I totally agree with you on your agreeing with me 😉 When I’m mad I know that most of my reactions are purely based on instinct. If I had just a few minutes to calm myself down then I wouldn’t do some stupid thing. Maybe they have the same problem.
In 500 BCE, I believe that people had a very different outlook on life and death, as well as suicide compared to today. Back then, there did not seem to be as much either disbelief in gods and afterlife, or being unsure what the afterlife was and what it would bring. The play portrayed the idea that suicide was not uncommon, or anywhere near as bad as we believe it is today. Back then, it seemed that one of the possible reasons behind suicide was to leave this life and start another or go to the afterlife, or due to the loss of a loved one, or to get away from something paining them. In recent times, many suicidal people have depression, or are just plainly unhappy whether it is due to their love life or money or anything else that could be out there.
I strongly think that the audiences of 500 BCE felt VERY differently about life than people today do. This is because the recent questioning of the gods and their power over life and afterlife. The different views between period would definitely put a different spin on everything about life.
Brandi, I agree with your statement about how they don’t have any depressment supressors, because back all you could do is feel bad and hope the gods ghave mercy on you.
Gavin, I do agree, but what about Creon? His wife, niece, and son are all dead. Wouldn’t it be hard for him to live with the guilt? It was mainly his fault they are all dead. Everyone I know would not get that upset, but for some people I think it would be impossible to get over it.
Again I need to grammatically fix my error, I said btu and meant to say but.
Kim, I agree that the Greeks might have thought that the afterlife may have been better than their normal lives.
Sophocles overused the idea of suicide to create tragedy. If people keep committing suicide then the story gets boring and predictable. However, I think Sophocles was trying to create an atmosphere of anguish to present the idea of alienation in Creon and Oedipus’s lives. All of their kin and loved ones perish; Most by there own hand. Each death triggers a chain reaction of suicide and murder. The wise always try to warn these people of the future, but their hubris blocks their path to reason. I can’t recall any movies that use suicide to show tragedy, but I watched a T.V. show called One Tree Hill that did. A nobody in a school full of obnoxious jerks got sick and tired of being treated so horribly. He brought a gun to school, and scared many people. However before they could get the gun from him he committed suicide. It made me cry which is why I think this is a good example of a writer using tragedy.
Gavin, I totally see where you are coming from. But if you recall I mentioned that I really don’t know anything about life at this point. Now to think about it, I guess some people’s lives are bad enough to just not live anymore. Though I still feel that it is misused. I have heard so many cases about people who kill themselves because they have bad test scores, like in Cornell. Or something that does not deserve ending a life. I was mainly referring to the stupid cases like that. Though again I have no idea about anything about life!
I think suicide was just a way to show extreme sorrow and grieving. I doubt that suicide was a widely accepted way of dealing with problems. I think it was used in way more, so in the sense of showing extreme sadness.
I agree with Greta. Then, suicide was in a way honorable. Though it was sad, people were in a way respected for having the courage to kill themselves. Though in reality, it is not killing oneself that shows courage, but trying to find a way to work through a problem.
Kendra, I defiantly agree that in Oedipus (at least) others gained from his death. So in a way his death was noble.
I agree with Kendra. Views on religion have changed a lot. A lot of people don’t believe in the afterlife.
Hunter, I agree with you. Human life seemed not as valuable to them as it is now.
Hi guys,
This is a pretty heavy discussion over a topic that is timely given the reports you may recently have been seeing in the paper concerning Phoebe Prince. Below is a link to a recent article.
It is so tragic. She was young, beautiful . . . and so much future still ahead.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/04/06/national/main6368937.shtml
Harjap,
I agree with what you mean about character. That it shows a person is very weak in moving past minor troubles in their life. But when you say that suicide might be different then, how do you mean? I do agree but for different reasons. There was war back then and there is war today. There was poverty back then and there is poverty today. There was tragedy back then and there is also tragedy today.
Kendra,
That’s a good thought. I don’t think many people could view of something such as suicide so differently. People connect death with instant depression and as terrible as losing a life is there are also other sides to it. I agree.
I agree with most of what you say, Harjap, but I don’t believe they killed themselves just because there weak that is a part of it, but people have to remember that they also did it to preserve there honor. Or sometimes people will be punished severely and rather than face that they can escape it.
Matt I agree with you. I say this because whenever a person who wanted to commit suicide it was for a reason. Reason’s could be that the person hated life, he/she had a condition of some sort, or even they mostly did for love. Take Romeo and Juliet for example they both committed suicide for love.
I believe that suicide was viewed with less sorrow and more understanding. In the plays we have read, the people commit suicide when they realize their lives are horrible. Such as in Oedipus, his mom/wife commits suicide when she finds out she has had kids by her own son. In Antigone, she commits suicide when she has been trapped in the cave and realizes that they are not going to let her out. In both of the plays the pople commit suicide when they would rather be dead than live this tragedy.
Suicide also could have been a way to not bring shame to your name. It might have been the honorable thing to do. Suicide could have been the most respected way to react to extreme incidents. It could help the way people looked at you after you were dead. If it was a way to clear your name it would make a lot of sense.
I think in ancient times suicide would be even more horrible than it is now. That is why Sophocles uses it to show just how deep his characters’ sadness was. In ancient Greek times famine or plague could strike at any time without warning. So life was something precious and hard to hold on to. It is awful to throw away your life when you would be considered lucky to make it through the winter. Suicide is still a horrible thing, but no so much when we don’t fight for survival every day.
I totally agree with you Graham that Sophocles had the character commit suicide to but more of a dramatic effect then just saying they were crying. And I also agree that the situation in [Antigone was more tragic because she committed suicide without knowing that it could have worked out for her because she was going to be set free and could have been wed to Haemon].
Harjap, I was thinking about Romeo and Juliet too. Aaron’s post about showing their commitment and love to each other was kind of about that.
But suicide was obviously a horrible choice for them, because lots of problems could have been avoided without it. Some other people were saying that waiting things out a little before you make a decision is usually a good thing. I definitely agree with that.
Ian, I definatly agree that suicide was worse for a person than it was now. Nowadays the media makes a very big deal about suicide. Do not misread this and think I don’t think suicide is bad but it was worse then.
I agree Damon it was just a way to get away from all the bad news they just found out. I think suicide is a not very well thought out idea you want to be dead right then not for ever.If you want to be dead for ever think about it for a long time.
Chris I kind of agree with you, but at the same time I disagree with you. I agree with you because the person who lost his/her loved one just could doesn’t want to live anymore which is true. I disagree with you because the person wouldn’t just kill himself, he would have to think about whether or not he would want to give up on the life that the person struggled for. Also they would just have to deal with and live on.
Defiantly Beth i agree with that one hundred percent. They had very low respect for human life. including their own.
Webb, I agree. Suicide was taken in a completely different view then what is now. Seppuku was a suicidal ritual used in ancient Japan to regain ones honor if you failed as a samurai.
Brandi, I agree with your point about dignity. It was very important to many people back then to keep their honor and dignity, and your paragraph explained that well.
I believe that suicide played a large part in ancient Greek plays. Many of Socrates characters committed suicide. Suicide may be seen as a way to escape despair or depression. Many people today see suicide as a way to escape, although it is not commonly accepted. Suicide wasn’t only part of Greek culture. When the ancient samurai failed to do something their Daimyo told them to do, they had to commit ritual suicide to regain their honor. Suicide has been a part of ancient culture for a long time and i think Socrates was adding to that with his plays.
Shawn,
Good thinking with the overuse thing. You might have something going their?
After checking out the website Mrs. G posted, I just wanted to add to my post.
In the play, Sophocles shows that suicide was not thought of as that big of a deal. I think this is because of the strong belief of the gods and the afterlife. I think the afterlife gives them some security that their souls will not just disappear. Another main reason for suicide today is peer pressure. A perfect example of this is the link Mrs. G posted.
Maile,
I completely agree with your statement about Seppuku and suicide being an honorable thing in ancient times.
I believe that the use of suicide in plays is perfectly fine. Sophocles plays are meant to be dramatic and meant to show people how bad life can be. Suicide is used in plays as a escape from grief that has befalled the person. Suicide is also used as a form of self-redemption, as the person feels so bad about what he has done that he kills himself to “save” everybody from him, and to make up for the horrible deeds he has done. It is such a moving action that it is used today in movies such as “American Beauty” and “An Officer and a Gentleman”.
Tragedies were used by many plays during Greek period. I think because many authors wanted to emphasis the lesson of stories. Maybe authors can make story into happy ending. And, they couldn’t make any suicide of characters. But, for examples for Oedipus and Antigone, Oedipus and the next king ‘Creon’ didn’t realize their reality. So, authors made them die or very unhappy. Unhappy case for ‘Creon’ was his son died. And, for Oedipus finally he realized his fault and became blind people by himself. I think authors wanted to show people if they don’t accept current happening or events, show how the result occurs. If they did very wrong, but finally story is happy. Won’t that be so weird? I think that authors wanted to show the results of tragedy and also gave the viewers lesson and surely emphasis it.
Davis,
I agree with what you are saying about the differences between the reasoning for suicide between then and today, but I disagree with what you said the reasons were for committing suicide today. You said it was because of money and fame. I think that there is a lot more to it than that. Yes, there are some cases where that is the cause, and some where that may be a part of it, but I think there is usually a more to it.
That is a great point Beth about not caring as much about death. Since they believed that the afterlife was nice and they could be reincarnated out of it, they wouldn’t have feared death as much as people today would.
Gray, you gave nice point in your comment. Especially, for movies were awesome. And, also I realized that they could use it for escape from grief that has befell the person. Also, I think you got grammar wrong with ‘befall’. That was nice idea, good job!!
Damon,
I agree with what said concerning how suicide was less sorrowful and why it was popular back then.
Beth, I agree with you. For the suicide, I thought that first authors emphasis about the story. However, if you see your comments then I realized that suicides occur because they had strong beliefs about gods and afterlife. Good job.
Philip, I agree that the Greek tragedies often used suicides to convey important points.
In the olden times suicide was not a big deal. I believe that people back then thought as long as they do good deads it doesnt matter how you die. In today’s world people commit suicide to get out of the world and end the pain, they dont care ware they will end up they just want to stop the pain. I think that is similar to what people did back then, the only differnce is that back then they thought thay would go to heaven or be reincarnet. In the show CSI miami their are situations where someone try’s to commit suicide and it is strongly looked down apon. If you commit a sin you can sometimes pay the price of your life. suicide is an awfull thing and it not only affects you, but the people around you that love you or even your family members.
Will I agree with you they thought suicide was just a fast track to a better life. I also liked your inferno comment because I have played the game and seen the forest of suicides in the ring of hell and it is definetly not a pleasent place
Okay so i think that if ,in that time, someone committed suicide it would be frowned upon. Like Blake said its a fast track to the after life. So that means you are like forcing it upon yourself. I think that is like cheating out of your life and going straight to the good place. Now i think unless you are religious then when someone has committed suicide it is sort of like an escape from this life. Its not really about trying to get to the next place in the great beyond or whatever.
Grayson,
I agree with you on your comment to some extent, but also want to make a comment. You said you think the use of suicide is completely fine in plays. I don’t completely think that is accurate. I think watching decent amounts of suicide could be bad.
This is just my other thoughts that were triggered by Grayson’s comment.
Suicide is incredibly depressing. If it is constantly being used in plays, it can get depressing. I understand there are other kinds of plays to watch such as comedy, but, correct me if I’m wrong because I may not be remembering correctly, but I don’t think women were aloud to watch comedies because they were considered too “crude” for women to watch. Overall, I definitely think too much exposure to suicide could be unhealthy.
Mrs. Gutierrez, the existence of your link supports this:
A reason why suicide is not as common and more horrible-looking is because of the media. If someone commits suicide, the media takes this and projects it all over the world for people to see. If someone were to look at one of these articles or shows, they would realize just how bad it could be. Anyways, the media adds opinions to the articles or shows, so they might (hopefully) put suicide in a bad light. This influences people and prevents suicide by making it sound worse.
In the play I think suicide is very overdone because it seems like suicide and deaths happen about every ten pages. In 500 BC I think that suicide was very common and often. In the plays that are tragedies suicide is part of the main thought of the play. Today, I don’t think suicide is connected with the same reasons that they committed suicide in 500 BC. In 500 BC life was way more centered around religion than it is today. Most people back then were not afraid to die because they believed in an afterlife or reincarnation. Today though, religion has changed immensely in our society, so, many people are afraid to die and leave their loved ones behind. There is no hope for an afterlife now in many religions. As times change so do the kinds of religion and what they believe in.
Shawn, I really agree with you because I also think that they plays have become somewhat predictable. And you’re right each death that occurs does cause a chain reaction for many other deaths to occur. It was very tragic.
Maile I do not really agree with you about the honor thing because every time there was a suicide it seemed that they did it for a loved one. The only time I could think that someone died for honor would be Antigone when she hung herself.
Plays are always fun to watch or make the hair on your back crawl. Sophocles and all the other Greek playwrights knew this well. In 500 B.C., the plays were either comedy or tragedy. Most plays were tragedy because it was considered too crude for females. Yet in plays, even still today, things are put into a much more dramatic perspective. So, this makes us all think that this drama is immense. In both the plays there were suicides. However, why did people really act that absurd in real life? It is more than likely that people would do theses utterly strange actions. However, I believe that it is not quite to the same extreme. In my opinion, suicide is definitely NOT the answer. There is always a better way out than self-killing. However I cannot change anybody’s mind. Yes, it is their body, but killing one’s self is utterly foolish. Back in 500 B.C., it was considered fine and reasonable to kill yourself. It could even be a way to retrieve your honor. I am sure some might say that it is not as bad of a thing to do (except those who have their loved ones kill themselves). In the play, though, the event of killing yourself is not as bad because plays are put to a more extreme point. The thought of suicide in the plays are not so bad; however, they always happen. I am always thinking, “Oh, another suicide. Not out of the ordinary for a person to kill themselves in a Greek tragedy.” I think the audiences in 500 B.C. did in fact have a different view on life and suicide than those that exist today. Life back then was much more difficult than today. Today we have vaccines and other medicines to keep us alive. Most people cherish living now-a-days. However, back in 500, the logical thing to think was, “I live only for so long while living. But in the Underworld I live for far longer. Therefore, I should please more people including the gods and Hades in the Underworld than more people including kings up on earth.” So suicide was only half bad in the time of 500 B.C. We see suicide much worse than how the ancient Greeks saw it. In Lord of the Rings, Frodo and Sam, (if you don’t already know, they are the two main characters who are on a voyage to destroy the possessing ring) are always tempted to have the ring as their own. This is a major problem if they do want it for themselves. I am pretty sure that either person (especially Frodo) would have had thoughts of killing themselves even though it was so not vividly said in the movies. Other than those movies, I cannot think of any other movie that may utilize suicide to convey tragedy.
Tara,
I agree with you. There is absolutely no reason why anybody should kill themselves. There will always be a better way out. And those who do actually have thoughts about killing themselves sure aren’t happy with their results in the end. Why would anybody even think about having the thought cross their mind? Well, they could have had a series of possible reasons for their thinking. They could have been all built up about several things that build up to become a massive issue, and then it was the straw that broke the camel’s back. Or the person could have been on drugs and couldn’t take it any longer. Another thing could have been that he was an immature, dumb teenager who thought that nobody loved him, and he was being abused, so he decided to kill himself. But then again, it could have really been like that, and he just wanted to die. However, there is no reason why anybody should kill himself. I hope I answered your question on why anybody would kill himself.
So far, I have been seeing a lot of people saying that it was considered honorable to commit suicide in Greece in 500 BC. However, I do not think that was the case, or at least not for this type of suicide that we are talking about. Look at the first part of the text in the following link and see if it changes you mind:
http://www.myriobiblos.gr/texts/english/constantelos_altrouistic_2.html
The link explains that sacrificial suicide and martyrdom are okay, but that is not what happened in Oedipus and Antigone. They killed themselves due to love, helplessness, or remorse, not to save others.
I agree with Matt. I can not acsess the link Matt put up because of some weird firewall, but I see what he is saying. Killing yourself because of a loved one dying and killing yourself as a sacrafice are two very different things.
I also agree with Matt their is different reasons for killing yourself for a loved one and killing yourself for a sacrafice. If you killed yourself for a loved one that means that you must have been deeply in love with that person. Where if it is a sacrafice that you kill yourself for it can mean loyalty to your religion. Theis is many different reasons to these types of suicide.
Matt–thank you for posting that link. I love the way you are supporting your ideas.
(cont.) I think that they committed suicide too much, though, and one suicide often led to more. I think the suicides were mostly selfish, though, because a lot of important people who were needed in society, like Haemon, committed suicide and were therefore not able to aid there city anymore. They did it without really thinking about others, but just to escape their own pain. The movie 2012 comes to mind when I think of suicide. Many people, such as the president, commit suicide, but for more honorable reasons. Also, in Shutter Island, a German soldier tries to commit suicide when ally troops come to kill him.
Kim,
I liked how you refered to more than just one movie. Both fitting movies, too.
Matt, I think that in ancient Greece, suicide wasn’t accepted, but it was used as a method of showing, as you said, love, helplessness, or remorse.
Blake, I agree with how you said suicide also affects your loved ones.
Tara, I agree with how you said that suicide is misused, because so many people who don’t have a say in the end of their life die, and people who have it better just end their lives over really dumb things like peer pressure.
If you click on my name, you can go to an excerpt of a book about suicides in Greek drama. I think that the suicides in the dramas were not only tools of showing love, remorse, and helplessness, but of the power of the gods. In the first play, Oedipus loses the one he loves because he tried, but failed, to defy the gods. The same thing happens in “Antigone” when Antigone, Haemon, and Euridyce all kill themselves because Creon tried to defy the gods by not burying Polyneces. The gods were also angry with him becaused he tried to kill Antigone who was doing what the gods wanted.
Here is another link that helps to explain the reasons for suicides in Greek tragedies.
http://www.kpbs.org/news/2010/feb/09/theatre-warbrings-greek-drama-camp-pendleton/
Aaron posted a link and one of the things it said was one of the reasons for suicide in Greek writing was a way out of a no-win situation or being lonely. Here is a link that shows similarity between reasoning then and now:
http://ezinearticles.com/?Reasons-As-to-Why-People-Commit-Suicide&id=2934032
And just FYI only the first paragraph applies to this.
Beth, I think your link is good, but it only explains why sucicides occur today, but why they were prevolent in Sophocles’s works.
Aaron,
I understand that, but I was just trying to show the similarities between some of the reasons Sophocles used in the play to modern times.
I belive that people back in 500 BCE thought differently about suicide. One of the ways it was different was that people committed suicide because they sometimes thought honer was more important then life. This is evident in Japan where they did Seppuka, which was a ritual suicide to regain lost honor. Nowadays people believed that suicide is wrong and a sign of weakness.
Beth, I think the reasons on the link you posted are actually very similar to the reasons that were used in both of the plays.
Maile,
What you say is so true. I am very much in agreement with what you are saying about honor and killing one’s self. When you say that people in ancient Greece killed themselves to get out of a conflict, I completely agree with you. Iocasta and Antigone killed themselves because they were in so much trouble even though I do not believe that it is ever a good idea to kill yourself. Also, I completely agree with you when you say that honor is not as big of a deal in this common era. People always betray other’s trust (that would have been a major loss of honor for ancient Greek). Today there is no loss in honor for somebody who betrays another. And if a person were to kill himself in 500 B.C., it would have been, as you said, “societal accepted”, unlike today.
Maile, I agree with you that honor is not such a big deal in our time as it was in theirs.
I forgot to say a movie, the movie that I thought of was Romeo and Juliet.